Do NC health experts feel safe going to restaurants? The pool? The beach? We asked some.
Gov. Roy Cooper’s original stay-at-home order expired Friday, ushering in the second phase of the state’s plan to reopen the economy amid the coronavirus pandemic.
In switching from a “stay-at-home” to a “safer-at-home” model, people are now faced with decisions about visiting restaurant dining rooms, hair salons and public swimming pools.
One side of the reopen debate says “too much” while the other side says “not enough.” What’s the right balance?
“In general, as long as there continues to be community spread of SARS-CoV-2 in our area, my family and I will be very cautious about places and activities that involve close encounters with other people, especially many other people (same advice to my patients),” Dr. David Alain Wohl, a professor at the Institute of Global Health and Infectious Diseases at UNC-Chapel Hill, told us via email.
“Under conditions of continued community spread of the virus, what we are talking about is how to reduce the risk of infection, not eliminate it, since the only way to do that is to stay sealed at home. So, every activity will involve some calculation of the chances that the experience can lead to infection.”
Wohl suggests that all establishments adopt the model used in health care settings, which are designed to keep people from getting infected: people are kept from getting too close to each other, they wear masks and they clean surfaces often.
“We can do the same outside of clinics and hospitals,” Wohl said.
North Carolina’s second phase of reopening allows restaurants and personal care services businesses like barbershops and nail salons to open at 50% capacity. It prohibits businesses like gyms, bars, nightclubs and other entertainment venues from opening.
As we all make personal choices about places we’ll visit right away or pass on for now, we decided to ask some local health experts what they and their families plan to do. Will they eat in restaurant dining rooms this weekend? Will they get haircuts? Will they hit the beach? What about indoor gatherings?
In addition to Wohl, we talked to Dr. Tony Moody, associate professor in the Department of Pediatrics at Duke University School of Medicine and member of the Duke Human Vaccine Institute; Dr. Sallie Permar, a professor of pediatric infectious disease, immunology and molecular genetics at the Duke School of Medicine; Dr. Amir Barzin, professor and director of UNC Family Medicine Center; and Regina Petteway, Director of Wake County Human Services.
Restaurant dining rooms
For the most part, the experts we spoke to are taking a pass on restaurant dining rooms — for now, at least. Takeout is still recommended.
Wohl: “Going to a crowded restaurant or pool or store would cross a line for me. Same for air travel until the rates on new infections drop substantially.”
Permar: “Probably not, spending time in a room with unmasked people who are talking is one of the risk factors for transmission. I will probably continue to use takeout, and possibly sit outdoors at a restaurant.”
Moody: “I will not go to restaurants right away, tempting though it is. Thinking of the usual places my family goes to, it is hard to social distance in the dining rooms. I might consider going to a location with outdoor seating if there were good spacing, but even there, I think I will have to wait a bit to see how things go in the first few weeks before committing.”
Petteway: “Eventually, yes. We should all continue to support our restaurants as you feel comfortable. For right now, I will continue to support my neighborhood restaurants by ordering takeout and doing curbside pickup.”
Barzin: “It’s something I would consider in the right circumstances. … I think it’s going to be learning what restaurants are doing to keep people safe. ... If people around me are wearing masks, the restaurant has really good techniques in terms of not having a lot of people waiting in a waiting area and a format for getting people in and out, and they have a reserved time for how long you can stay there, etc., it makes me much more comfortable than if it was just what we were doing beforehand.”
Gov. Roy Cooper was asked in a Friday afternoon press conference if he would feel comfortable eating in a restaurant this weekend and he said yes, adding: “I would certainly want that restaurant to be following all of the personal safety rules and doing everything they can to prevent the transfer of COVID-19. But we hope that people will feel safe enough to go to our restaurants throughout the state.”
Hair salons and barbershops
Our experts are in agreement here: these encounters can be safe if masks are used and unnecessary contact with others is eliminated.
Wohl: “One-on-one activities like a dentist or barber can be acceptable if the service provider is masked and uses good infection control procedures. Waiting rooms are a no-no. Unmasked staff, deal breaker.”
Moody: “I will consider it, but some of it will be based on the salon itself and what steps they plan to take. The usual time I get my cut is not typically crowded, but that may change during the early weeks of opening up. The spacing in the salon I go to allows for people to be spaced out, but it is still very close quarters with my stylist. I do want to support my stylist, especially since he’s not been able to work during the lockdown, but I also feel the need for caution.”
Permar: “Yes! I will wear a mask to visit my hairdresser, and luckily she has a single room.”
Petteway: “I am really good at doing my own hair. So not right now. When the Governor’s Order allows that, I will consider visiting a hair or nail salon if they had the appropriate barriers, cleaning protocol, and personal protective equipment in use. Again, if you are over 60 years of age or have a health condition that puts you at higher risk, I would advise that you avoid or delay these kinds of visits.”
Barzin: “That actually seems a little more palatable, as long as I’m wearing a mask and my stylist is wearing a mask. I think that most barbershops are primed to do physical distancing already. Most of them have really good access in terms of chairs being spaced certain feet apart, they usually have a larger area so you kind of feel that you’re in your own area when you’re getting a haircut. And they have a lot of rules already in place. If you think about how that industry was set up prior to this, they have a ton of rules that they need to abide by ... that are probably not going to be much of a big change for them.”
Swimming pools
Swimming pools still seem tricky for most of our experts.
Permar: “Probably not, it is hard for people to wear a mask while swimming.”
Moody: “I don’t go to public pools regularly so it’s not really a big deal.”
Petteway: “No, probably not until there is a vaccine. Not enough is known about the transmission of this virus. There are too many opportunities for transmission from touched surfaces. People who may be asymptomatic can still spread particles through the air. I am not sure that there are enough of the chemicals needed in the water, at all times, to immediately kill the virus.”
Barzin: “The swimming pool idea is a little bit difficult for me. It’s really hard for me to imagine going to a community pool ... it would be really difficult to space people out. One of the big advantages you have is that you are outdoors, but in terms of getting into a pool, it’s just hard for me to imagine how you can space that out. We have a 16-month-old daughter so we are probably going to be really cautious around a pool setting. “
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Indoor gathering or services at a place of worship
Our experts are all pretty firm on the dangers of indoor gatherings. Continue to keep it outside, they say.
Permar: “No, I won’t. One of the major risk factors for the infection is spending a prolonged period of time in a group of people who are talking or singing, which is a cornerstone of worship services. Online or outdoor services are much more sensible for keeping congregation members safe.”
Moody: “It would depend on the circumstances and the plan. I wouldn’t rule it out, but it would have to be important. I would be much more likely to go to something outdoors where spacing can be more easily achieved and there is the atmosphere to dilute any contagious particles, but I wouldn’t go to an outdoor concert or festival. But a gathering in an enclosed space, or with lots of people, almost certainly not.”
Petteway: “My faith community is planning for reopening by putting every protection in place for when people can return to the building. That includes distancing protocol, cleaning protocol and limiting the number of people in the building at one time. They are waiting for a bit longer to assure these precautions are in place, and for public health officials they trust to let them know they can open with fewer risks to their members. They are also encouraging people over 60 and with compromised health to continue to worship virtually. I appreciate faith communities who are doing virtual services and socially distanced outdoor/in-your-car services right now.”
Barzin: “I don’t necessarily think that I would be the first one to go into a large community gathering with a lot of people that I don’t know, per say. ... But I would hope that all of us are honest with each other and if we start feeling bad, we should try to remove ourselves from any situation where we would be gathering with people. That’s what I’ve asked of my family and extended family ... just a little more honesty. A runny nose may mean that we just need to talk about if it’s safe for me to be around you right now or not, and maybe just monitoring symptoms for 72 hours and making sure we feel OK. “
Department stores or indoor malls
In-store shopping isn’t out of the question, but online shopping with delivery or curbside pickup is still the safest option.
Permar: “Possibly — I might visit a small store where store clerks and shoppers were wearing a mask.”
Petteway: “I would try to order online as much as possible.”
Barzin: “If the stores are set up properly where there’s spacing in the stores and everyone’s wearing a mask or masks are available, it makes it a lot more palatable.”
The beach
A beach trip sounds pretty good right about now — but continue to practice safe physical distancing.
Permar: “Yes, this summer I plan to rent a house and enjoy the beach. Rental facilities can be cleaned between usage and we are lucky that the wide, sandy beaches of the NC shores can give plenty of space to sit six feet apart from other families. However, I don’t stay on the beach too long anyhow to avoid sunburn!”
Petteway: “I would consider those types of outings in late August if the Governor’s Orders allow, depending on how this virus is continuing to spread, or not. Right now I think as many people as possible should continue to stay at home, to help keep our ‘curve’ in Wake County flat, and to slow the spread so that hospitals and health systems are not overwhelmed.”
Barzin: “We love going to the beach. ... I really, really, really want to try to find a way to do that. I think some of the places that I’ve seen do this really well have designated areas that people can sit at when they’re at the beach. ... I feel like if I were to go with my wife and my daughter and had a little plot that we kind of claimed on our own, I would feel pretty comfortable being out on a beach with them.”
This story was originally published May 22, 2020 at 2:23 PM with the headline "Do NC health experts feel safe going to restaurants? The pool? The beach? We asked some.."
